HildyGottlieb And mondo thanks to @dimitrious who will now magically post every word at the archives at http://is.gd/cQG00 (He is SO my hero!) #npcons -2:31 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone Thank you for involving me - great discussion! #NPCons -2:31 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech Delighted to discover that iCal on my Mac let me put in a repeating monthly event on the third Tuesday of the month #npcons -2:31 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Thank you all for another GREAT chat! Thank you to @nancyiannone for great questions in co-facilitating! #npcons -2:30 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @CharlieKalech The brain frying was mutual, my friend! Great to meet you on #npcons! We'll be talking more, I'm certain! -2:28 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @socialchngediva Hey we thought you were stuck in your cubicle? If they serve pinot in your cubicle, I want to work in your office! #npcons -2:28 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb I think we've hit our limit. When a consulting chat includes "dude" & "true dat" it's time to call it done! :-) #npcons -2:27 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid @CharlieKalech Cool. Guess my right-braind, soulful, quirky charm has trumped qualitative. Will do more #s. #npcons -2:26 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Any other key learnings from today’s chat? What stood out for you? #npcons -2:26 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @MarkRiffey True that! :) #NPCons -2:25 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech @JoppaThoughts Thanks for frying my brain a little! #NPCons -2:25 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @HildyGottlieb: RT @JoppaThoughts: Thank you all for another great convo! This is sacred professional development time! #NPCons -2:25 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 socialchngediva @HildyGottlieb : exactly. I am going to have another glass of pinot now, carry on. #npcons -2:25 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @JoppaThoughts: Thank you all for another great convo! This is sacred professional development time! #npcons -2:25 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb Goals are subjective and defined by agreed up objectives, which aren't subjective and are measurable. #NPCons -2:25 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts Thank you all for another great convo! It's in my calendar for the rest of the year -- this is sacred professional development time! #NPCons -2:24 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @socialchngediva Ugh - you didn't just say that "leadership devel" is "soft stuff" did you? Wait - another UGH coming on... :-) #npcons -2:24 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 socialchngediva @socialchngediva : not soft as in fluffy... but soft skills ( although i hate that word). #npcons -2:24 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MarkRiffey @spurdave True and even the hole isnt the result they want, its the stuff that comes thru the hole:) #npcons -2:23 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious Because that's what they hear about. RT @spurdave: @MarkRiffey Yes, but they ask for SM, the drill. :) #npcons -2:23 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @socialchngediva Make assessment a part of the planning in early stages. Research that for soft stuff like "leadership devel" #npcons -2:23 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @spurdave Which comes back to what we consultants measure - the hole? The # of drill bits? Or the dry towel? #npcons -2:23 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 socialchngediva Make assessment a part of the planning in early stages. And research that for soft stuff like "leadership development" #npcons -2:22 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech RT @MarkRiffey: @HildyGottlieb Clients dont want social media, they want more/better relationships/interaction. They put up with socmed to get it:) #npcons -2:22 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts Participating in #NPCons -- and learning from, joking with and debating my colleagues is just another reason #whyIlovetwitter! -2:22 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Wonderful! RT @amykincaid: I'm going to work on measures/ing work with individual clients, but then also for our whole portfolio. #npcons -2:21 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech @amykincaid I find these measures ESSENTIAL for business (mine and theirs #NPCons -2:21 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @MarkRiffey Clients dont want social media, they want more/better relationships/interaction. They put up with socmed to get it:) #npcons -2:21 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid I mean, portfolio as a whole. #npcons -2:21 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @MarkRiffey Yes, but they ask for SM, the drill. :) #NPCons -2:21 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @MarkRiffey Clients dont want social media, they want more/better relationships/interaction. They put up w/ socmed to get it :) #npcons -2:21 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 jdeancoffey @socialchngediva #npcons Evaluative Inquiry . Love feedback http://bit.ly/caHM45 -2:21 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld Thatks @HildyGottlieb & @Nancylannone - educational as always! Signing off now #npcons -2:21 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid I'm going to work on measures/ing work with individual clients, but then also for our whole portfolio. #npcons -2:20 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @CharlieKalech Thank YOU Charlie! See you in July! #npcons -2:20 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MarkRiffey @HildyGottlieb Clients dont want social media, they want more/better relationships/interaction. They put up with socmed to get it:) #npcons -2:20 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @CharlieKalech Sometimes. If the project goes on beyond the presentation of my findings. But worth thinking about more on my end! #NPCons -2:20 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb 1 more. That's either the unit of measure or you're confusing goals and objectives. #NPCons -2:20 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone @spurdave Bye Dave - glad you could make it #NPCons -2:19 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech Thanks for getting me into my first #NPCons @askdebra @HildyGottlieb @JoppaThoughts @johnhaydon & others Looking 4ward to next time! #NPCons -2:19 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @JoppaThoughts Biggest take away: Idea that nothing we do is sustainble if we are more invested & working harder than the client. #npcons -2:19 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @JoppaThoughts: Biggest take away: Nothing we do is sustainable if we are more invested and working harder than the client. #npcons -2:19 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @JoppaThoughts: Biggest take away: Idea that nothing we do is sustainable if we are more invested&working harder than the client. #NPCons -2:19 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave This was a great chat! Thank you everyone! #NPCons -2:19 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @spurdave Guess I'm still not sure that doesn't measure outputs vs ultimate outcome - why client wants #socmed in 1st place. #npcons -2:18 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @rjenbarr: @seattledrury At least we are in the same time zone. I met @ChristinasWorld when she came to SF from Belgium! #npcons -2:18 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 rjenbarr RT @JoppaThoughts: Biggest take away: The idea that nothing we do is sustainable if we are more invested and working harder than the client. #NPCons -2:18 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ltwhite @HildyGottlieb you're welcome. Thanks for great chat! #npcons -2:18 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech @JoppaThoughts So u can measure with outcomes - Money and Reach/Engagement metrics (story-telling), no? #NPCons -2:18 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 rjenbarr @seattledrury Me too Peter, At least we are in the same time zone. I met @ChristinasWorld when she came to SF from Belgium! #npcons -2:17 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious @seattledrury Bye Peter and yes, that meeting in person thing sounds great! #npcons -2:17 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @wrightmomentum: Challenge & opportunity to discover co-creative effectiveness/evaluation. Thanks all..look forward to next chat. #NPCons -2:17 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts Biggest take away: The idea that nothing we do is sustainable if we are more invested and working harder than the client. #NPCons -2:17 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @ltwhite Thanks for that, Leslie! #npcons -2:17 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @CharlieKalech does that help? Or is it too muddled. *brain fry* #NPCons -2:17 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb Sure. All pet shelter clients = control. Before social media, after social media and how you compare to others. #NPCons -2:16 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 wrightmomentum Challenge & opportunity to discover co-creative effectiveness/evaluation. Thanks all...look forward to next chat. #NPCons -2:16 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @ltwhite: Takeaway - thinking outputs v. outcomes. How to apply to my type of consulting (risk assessment/management) #npcons -2:16 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @NancyIannone: consultants are searching for ways to measure community impact by orgs as much as the organizations themselves #npcons -2:16 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ltwhite Takeaway - thinking outputs v. outcomes. How to apply to my type of consulting (risk assessment/management) #npcons -2:16 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @CharlieKalech My goal is to get them more effective at raising money (and telling their story) so they can accomplish their goals. #NPCons -2:16 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @seattledrury Thanks for being here, Peter. You always add so much. Hope you'll come to http://is.gd/cQAly as we continue! #npcons -2:16 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone Seems like consultants searching for ways to measure community impact by orgs as much as the organizations themselves #NPCons -2:15 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @CharlieKalech: Is the goal 2 finish ur assessment or 2 convey ur findings & make it meaningful towards their goal? #npcons -2:15 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld takeaway - I'm new at all this, have mostly experienced the other side. You have given me so much to think about. Thanks! #npcons -2:14 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious @MatthewDooley Thanks for playing - see you next time. #npcons -2:14 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury Farewell my #npcons friends - I've really got to run! Sure would be fun to meet ea of you in person some day! -2:14 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @spurdave Could you apply that model w/example of a consulting gig? #npcons -2:14 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech @JoppaThoughts Not sure I get it Is ur goal 2 finish ur assessment or 2 convey ur findings & make it meaningful towards their goal? #NPCons -2:14 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Steele36 RT: @NonprofitsNow All #NPcons need to be aware of this new awareness campaign for the nonprofit sector! Follow and help spread the word. -2:14 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @JoppaThoughts LOL :) #NPCons -2:13 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb As we start to wrap up, any key learnings from today’s chat? What stood out for you? #npcons -2:13 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @spurdave Oh! Thank you . . . that's very helpful. #lightdawnsonmarblehead #NPCons -2:12 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MatthewDooley Must leave, but will check in later to see transcript -- Thanks and bye all! #npcons -2:12 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @seattledrury When leadership is vital, it is life-giving more than energy-draining #npcons -2:12 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 rjenbarr @askdebra Good-by. I am in middle of project for client mtg tomorrow so am only half here... #npcons -2:11 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @JoppaThoughts eg: All DV shelter clients = control. Current situation is pre-test. Result of work is difference with post test. #NPCons -2:11 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @CharlieKalech Oh, I agree. But their eliminating hunger goal means a much different measurement (outcome) than my assessment goal. #NPCons -2:11 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious @askdebra and thank you to you Debra. Sleep well and see you next time. #npcons -2:11 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @askdebra Check in here tomorrow http://is.gd/cQAly and we'll keep it going! Good night and thanks for staying up with us! #npcons -2:11 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury Re: Outcomes #2 - I then treat that as a measurable outcome for negotiation & eval #npcons -2:10 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone @askdebra so glad you were here - you always have thoughtful input #NPCons -2:10 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech @JoppaThoughts But eliminating hunger is not the client goal for your project. They need to have smaller goals (Baby Steps) #NPCons -2:10 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @socialchngediva:#NPCons is like a brainiac cocktail party where all the convos are uberpowerful & you dont want to miss a thing. #npcons -2:10 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @spurdave, could you give an example of how you use the pre-test, post-test and control group in a consulting relationship? #NPCons -2:10 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra I must sign off as it is past midnight. I loved the energy and ideas in this #npcons chat. Kudos to @HildyGottlieb @Dimitrious @NancyIannone -2:09 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 socialchngediva @jdeancoffey : would you share your Eval Inq form or point in the direction to begin to wrap my head around in an astute way? #npcons -2:09 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious @jdeancoffey thanks for stopping by. #npcons -2:09 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb Goes back to pre-test, post test and control group. #NPCons -2:09 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone Talked earlier about client/consultant co-creating community impact outcomes - what steps are they taking toward that? #NPCons -2:09 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @spurdave So how do we meas the "consultant equiv" of "family health"? How do we measure the real ultimate result of our work? #npcons -2:09 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 carbonoutreach Great convos from non-profit consultants at #npcons @ChristinasWorld @JoppaThoughts @HildyGottlieb @spurdave @wrightmomentum @Johnhaydon -2:08 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @strausdj It's MUCH easier to follow at http://tweetchat.com/room/NPCons. Almost impossible to follow on twitter! #NPCons -2:08 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @spurdave But it can also mean you just distributed lots of condoms and simply assume the family is healthier. (1/2) #npcons -2:08 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury RT @socialchngediva: its like a brainiac cocktail party (I love that AND your smile as I read it!) #npcons -2:08 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 jdeancoffey #npcons terrible Twitter cov and another obligation, BAPIP so I must depart. Good thoughts!! -2:08 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts My goal: provide a development assessment and recomendations for FY2011. Client goal: eliminate hunger in Essex County. #NPCons -2:07 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury RT @askdebra @socialchngediva So true. And we could use your knowledge, too. And the next ones! #npcons -2:07 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 PhilanthropyInk Right on: RT @HildyGottlieb: LOVE this! RT @seattledrury: If I am the one working hardest, the outcomes will not be sustainable #npcons -2:07 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ltwhite @JoppaThoughts Me too. Hard to measure outcomes may not appear for awhile. ROI of social media may not happen for months #npcons -2:07 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld Not sure it's our job to measure outcomes unless the client wants us to. If assignment about assessing their methodologies, maybe.. #npcons -2:07 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 strausdj #npcons .... I don't get it, I think you need to be there, sounds a lot like a Dilbert/Dogbert thing. Tweets are all just noise to me -2:07 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury Re: Outcomes - I sometimes check in w/ board & ED on this: When leadership is vital, it is life-giving more than energy-draining #npcons -2:06 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious .@seattledrury The process has similarities to speed dating only faster. That's why we are continuing the discussion at npcons.net #npcons -2:06 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @seattledrury It's why chat will move to blog after http://is.gd/cQAly. We can't be this smart this fast, for very long! #npcons -2:06 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 socialchngediva @seattledrury : its like a brainiac cocktail party where all of the convos are uberpowerful and you dont want to miss anything. #npcons -2:06 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid Another lesson learned. RT @askdebra: When I was a community organizer... "you can't want it more than they do." #npcons -2:06 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb e.g.: More condoms distributed can result in happier, wealthier, smaller families. #NPCons -2:06 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts Output/Outcomes: Our projects short term, so maybe more output oriented. Client goals are long-term, more outcome oriented. *think* #NPCons -2:06 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech @HildyGottlieb Sorry, I don't get it. What's wrong with measuring outputs? (not only) if it helps measure sucess w/the goal? #NPCons -2:05 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts I'm getting a little caught up on outputs or outcomes . . . but I think the one we measure depends on our goal. #NPCons -2:04 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @HildyGottlieb: @spurdave What does that look like in practice? What might we count that tells us something real? #NPCons -2:04 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 rjenbarr food 1 meas. of health. use that, incl others RT @HildyGottlieb Measuring outputs or outcomes? "Cans of food" or "healthy families?" #npcons -2:04 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury I humbly confess I need a support group and training for managing to follow #NPCons ! Crazily powerful - and also crazy to follow! 8^) -2:04 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 RocchiJulia Good gutcheck! RT @HildyGottlieb: Are we measuring outputs or outcomes [for work results]? "Cans of food" or "healthy families?" #npcons -2:04 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @spurdave What does that look like in practice? What might we count that tells us something real? #npcons -2:04 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 jdeancoffey @HildyGottlieb #npcons we usually phase the work using an Eval Inquiry frame and modify, refine and focus as we go. Context always changes. -2:04 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld @HildyGottlieb which things do we do that we wish clients would stop doing? #npcons -2:03 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra @socialchngediva So true. And we could use your knowledge, too. And the next ones! #npcons -2:03 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 wrightmomentum people afraid to admit real pain - that's the heart of the work, golden opp to evaluate impact when that work is transformed #NPCons -2:03 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury RT @socialchngediva: Soaking up the knowledge of #npcons- Brain busting stuff for nonprofit consultants. Go there now. #npcons -2:03 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb Count quantitative outputs to compare qualitative changes. #NPCons -2:03 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb If it's not ok for our clients to measure "outputs" is it ok for us to do so? #npcons -2:03 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ltwhite RT @socialchngediva: Soaking up the knowledge of #npcons- Brain busting stuff for nonprofit consultants. Go now.<Me too, lurking> #npcons -2:03 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @askdebra Co-create. Now that's hot! #npcons -2:02 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Interesting observing how often we consultants do what we wish our clients would stop doing! :-) #npcons -2:02 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @socialchngediva: Soaking up the knowledge of #npcons- Brain busting stuff for nonprofit consultants. Go there now. #npcons -2:02 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech RT @socialchngediva: Soaking up the knowledge of #npcons- Brain busting stuff for nonprofit consultants. Go there now. #npcons -2:02 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @socialchngediva: Soaking up the knowledge of #npcons- Brain busting stuff for nonprofit consultants. Go there now. #npcons -2:02 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @amykincaid @johnhaydon and meetings about meetings... #NPCons -2:01 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @spurdave: A4: Use lots of open ended questions early in the sales process. Keep digging to get to big picture outcomes. #npcons -2:01 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @HildyGottlieb: when we measure results of our work, are we measuring outputs or outcomes? "Cans of food" or "healthy families?" #npcons -2:01 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @NolandHoshino Your focus is cause marketing? #npcons -2:01 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 socialchngediva Soaking up the knowledge of #npcons- Brain busting stuff for nonprofit consultants. Go there now. #npcons -2:01 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @spurdave: @HildyGottlieb A4: Use lots of open ended ?'s early in the sales process. Keep digging to get to big picture outcomes. #NPCons -2:01 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb So when we measure results of our work, are we measuring outputs or outcomes? "Cans of food" or "healthy families?" #npcons -2:01 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @amykincaid True. #npcons -2:00 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 rjenbarr good idea! RT @askdebra @HildyGottlieb I often suggest that key-decision makers and stakeholders be part of the development process. #npcons -2:00 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb A4: Use lots of open ended questions early in the sales process. Keep digging to get to big picture outcomes. #NPCons -2:00 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury Beautiful! RT @askdebra: When I was a community organizer, I always said "you can't want it more than they do." #npcons -2:00 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 thelaurenklein RT @HildyGottlieb: 20 minutes to #NPCons chat for Consultants to #nonprofit / community benefit orgs #npcons -2:00 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid But they have more committees!! Ahaha. @spurdave @johnhaydon No doubt that smaller groups are more agile with less red tape. #NPCons -1:59 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @askdebra I agree, but I've had some success taking the curmudgeon out to lunch to really get to the bottom line of his/her issue. #NPCons -1:59 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @amykincaid Lessons learned there are probably about fit, and about expectations up front! #npcons -1:59 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra @johnhaydon That cracked me up. Good Q to ask! #npcons -1:59 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech @HildyGottlieb We use imperical metrics of the initially stated goals. ie, membersship, subscriptions, donations, applications #npcons -1:59 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @MatthewDooley Oh, you've got that right! #NPCons -1:59 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious (Like reformed smokers) RT @JoppaThoughts: Curmudgeons often help get you to the heart of the matterquickly. They are influencers. #npcons -1:59 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra @JoppaThoughts I find that curmudgeons are often influencers, and often barriers to change. #NPCons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid Close, brilliant colleague had recent issue w "working harder than client" Thought She Should. Eval tough there. #npcons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Q4: How are you discovering the outcomes clients want beyond deliverables? How is that creating your scope of work? #npcons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @ChristinasWorld By the way, "Christina's World" is one of my favorite paintings. #npcons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts Q4: One question I have is whether the ED and DD is less stressed now than they were before the project. If I'm doing my job, yes! #NPCons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury Duly noted - Will plan to >> @NancyIannone: Might be helpful to share example on the blog afterward for everyone to read too :-) #NPCons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MatthewDooley @JoppaThoughts Yes, but "there is a point when the squeeky wheel becomes a pain in the ass" #npcons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @johnhaydon @spurdave Love the aneurysm question. Allows for, "Well maybe they should be involved in planning it!" #npcons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NolandHoshino Yes! RT @johnhaydon @ChristinasWorld That's why I prefer working with small nonprofits. They move faster and take more risks #npcons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @askdebra: @seattledrury @NancyIannone When I was a community organizer,I always sai "you cant want it more than they do" Love it #NPCons -1:58 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave Good for budgeting! RT @johnhaydon: @HildyGottlieb @spurdave I sometimes ask "Would the ED have an aneurysm if this project failed?" #NPCons -1:57 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @amykincaid: Had to learn and relearn this one. RT @seattledrury: If I am the one working hardest, outcomes not sustainable #npcons -1:57 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @spurdave And usually say thanks more. ;-) #npcons -1:57 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @JoppaThoughts: Curmudgeons often help get you to the heart of the matter very quickly. #npcons -1:57 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone @seattledrury Might be helpful to share example on the blog afterward for everyone to read too :-) #NPCons -1:57 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Q4: What are you currently using to measure real outcomes effectiveness? (Not the tool e.g. survey - the indicators) #npcons -1:56 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @HildyGottlieb @spurdave I sometimes ask "Would the ED have an aneurysm if this project failed?" #npcons -1:56 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious RT @amykincaid: Had to learn and relearn this one. RT @seattledrury: If I am the one working hardest, outcomes not sustainable #npcons -1:56 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts RT @amykincaid: Had to learn and relearn this one. RT @seattledrury: If I am the one working hardest, outcomes not sustainable #NPCons -1:56 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra @seattledrury @NancyIannone When I was a community organizer, I always said "you can't want it more than they do." #npcons -1:56 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts Anyone else have a soft spot for curmudgeons? They often help get you to the heart of the matter very quickly. They are influencers. #NPCons -1:56 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 charityestrella @johnhaydon @ChristinasWorld as a small non-profit (and one who has worked for a large one) I wholeheartedly agree with that! #npcons -1:55 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @charityestrella: Knowing why the curmudgeons are committed to the cause is key in making that happen #npcons -1:55 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid Had to learn and relearn this one. RT @seattledrury: If I am the one working hardest, outcomes not sustainable #npcons -1:55 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury @NancyIannone #npcons Yes, but it would take more than 140 characters! Happy to chat (email) offline -1:55 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @askdebra: @HildyGottlieb I often suggest that key-decision makers and stakeholders be part of the development process. #NPCons -1:55 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @johnhaydon No doubt that smaller groups are more agile with less red tape. #NPCons -1:55 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Great! RT @askdebra: I often suggest that key-decision makers and stakeholders be part of the development process. #npcons -1:55 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @seattledrury What a fantastic point! The client has to be sweating it even more than we are -- otherwise, we're just a blip. #NPCons -1:55 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld I always appreciate how smart this group is. Thanks for all the knowledge share! @spurdave @johnhaydon @joppathoughts @seattledrury #npcons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 jdeancoffey @HildyGottlieb #npcons we work 2 > clients adaptive capacity 2 think, assess, determine & act. & 2 do it w/out us. Process is also a tool -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech In my initial conversation, I ask for their goals. If they get it & are open to input, I'm interested in working with them #NPCons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @spurdave: Its part of the sales process. Digging to find the real pain, getting them to admit it and act on it. #npcons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra @HildyGottlieb I often suggest that key-decision makers and stakeholders be part of the development process. #npcons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone .@seattledrury Any good examples of how that is effective in your current work? #NPCons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 charityestrella @JoppaThoughts agreed! Knowing why the curmudgeons are committed to the cause is key in making that happen #npcons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @wrightmomentum It's part of the sales process. Digging to find the real pain, getting them to admit it and act on it. #NPCons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @NancyIannone A true desire on the side of the client to improve the organization. Change is scary. Not everyone REALLY wants it! #NPCons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @ChristinasWorld That's why I prefer working with small nonprofits. They can often move faster and take more risks. #npcons -1:54 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 rjenbarr @HildyGottlieb @realize_ink Quoting shareholders "this was the most successful ___" I ever saw, is a kind of quant for qualit. data #npcons -1:53 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb LOVE this! RT @seattledrury: If I am the one working hardest, the outcomes will not be sustainable #npcons -1:53 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra The right model for buy-in. RT @wrightmomentum: Ask what is it that "they" want- how will we meet that together? Co-create baby! #NPCons -1:53 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MatthewDooley @HildyGottlieb We can provide tools AND instruction sheet 4 a finished product. Then check to see how it came out and help rework #npcons -1:53 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @spurdave Clients ask for a drill. Our job is to find out why and help them see the bigger reality. #npcons -1:53 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MarkRiffey .@HildyGottlieb "What's this piece of paper for? Let's follow it." #npcons -1:53 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury @NancyIannone ... that if I were the one working hardest, the outcomes would not be sustainable #npcons -1:52 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 rjenbarr @HildyGottlieb @realize_ink examples depend on proj - increase in # of conf attendees/donors, lettrs of commendation, ... #npcons -1:52 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 AdamKins RT @HildyGottlieb: Deliverables: Do clients want “a drill” or do they want a hole? Or to hang a towel rack? Or really a dry towel? #npcons -1:52 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @charityestrella Absolutely. One-on-one conversations have been most helpful in getting the curmudgeons on board! #NPCons -1:52 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury @NancyIannone When a family therapist, my supervisor always asked "who is working harder - you or the client?" Her point was... #npcons -1:52 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @amykincaid Yes, that's the way in the door. Helping them understand the full scope may or may not be achievable. Sometimes no $. #NPCons -1:52 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @HildyGottlieb: @JoppaThoughts If we want our work 2 have real impact for the client what needs to be in place for that to happen #NPCons -1:52 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid @spurdave e.g. We do Stratplan, Grants, etc. as opposed to deep strategic technical assistance. #npcons -1:52 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @spurdave I try and get buy in from the top early on. Sometimes it's hard with the mega megapolis type of orgs #npcons -1:51 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 wrightmomentum @spurdave challenge - how do we present that early enough so they get it, sign on? #NPCons -1:51 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech They dont want a drill OR a hole, they want a shelf. U dont want 2 B #1 in Google, U wanna sell more widgets That gets them thinking #NPCons -1:51 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb .@spurdave @johnhaydon Are there questions we can ask client that can help engage those other moving parts? #npcons -1:51 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 charityestrella @JoppaThoughts true and this why I think full org buy-in is important #npcons -1:51 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury RT @NancyIannone: What responsibility does the client have in this process? #NPCons -1:51 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 AdamKins RT @HildyGottlieb: Put another way, are we providing just a tool, or are we aiming our tools at the real results clients want/need? #npcons -1:50 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts RT @NancyIannone What responsibility does the client have in this process? | They have the ultimate responsibility. #NPCons -1:50 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid @spurdave And yet. There is the struggle of offering clear, familiar services to trade on. As entry point. #npcons -1:50 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @johnhaydon Yes, moving parts are a #$%^. Working top down helps a lot. When the ED says jump, most do. #NPCons -1:50 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @JoppaThoughts Then if we want our work to have real impact for the client, what needs to be in place for that impact to happen? #npcons -1:50 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 wrightmomentum Ask what is it that "they" want- how will we meet that together? Co-create baby! #NPCons -1:50 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @Dimitrious and @hildygottlieb - Thanks so much for putting this chat together! #npcons -1:50 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @johnhaydon: Problem I often have is other moving parts in the org that actually work against project outcomes. #npcons -1:50 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra Ultimately, perhaps the greatest measure of success is when the client only wants to check in with us, and doesn't lean on us #npcons -1:49 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 charityestrella @HildyGottlieb we should be doing the latter #npcons -1:49 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @johnhaydon: Problem I often have is other moving parts in the org that actually work against project outcomes. #npcons -1:49 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 ChristinasWorld RT @JoppaThoughts: Were aiming our tools at the ultimate result, but usually were not the one swinging the hammer. #npcons -1:49 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone What responsibility does the client have in this process? #NPCons -1:49 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @wrightmomentum Exactly! Value is the key. Help the client understand the full value of what they are getting. #NPCons -1:49 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb If all we provide is tools, measuring only extent to which we did so, how is that dif from FoodBank meas cans of food? #npcons -1:49 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts We're aiming our tools at the ultimate result, but usually we're not the one swinging the hammer. #NPCons -1:48 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid That's the thing. @spurdave @HildyGottlieb Clients ask for a drill. Our job is to find out why and help them see the bigger reality. #NPCons -1:48 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @spurdave Problem I often have is other moving parts in the org that actually work against project outcomes. #npcons -1:48 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NolandHoshino RT @HildyGottlieb Deliverables: Do clients want “a drill” or do they want a hole? Or to hang a towel rack? Or really a dry towel? #npcons -1:48 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 wrightmomentum clarity - evaluating effectiveness, in the eye of the beholder? consultant/coach may meet obj, but what is the value beyond that? #NPCons -1:48 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 charityestrella Absolutely! RT @spurdave: @HildyGottlieb Clients ask for a drill. Our job is to find out why and help them see the bigger reality. #NPCons -1:48 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MatthewDooley @HildyGottlieb Ah...great questions, upon which hags the entire assignment! #npcons -1:47 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 CharlieKalech @HildyGottlieb We call ourselves a "Full Service Internet Consultancy" We consult & implement, guide, teach and execute deliverables #npcons -1:47 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @spurdave: @HildyGottlieb Clients ask for a drill. Our job is to find out why and help them see the bigger reality. #npcons -1:47 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Put another way, are we providing just a tool, or are we aiming our tools at the real results clients want/need? #npcons -1:47 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @spurdave: @HildyGottlieb Clients ask for a drill. Our job is to find out why and help them see the bigger reality. #NPCons -1:47 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb Clients ask for a drill. Our job is to find out why and help them see the bigger reality. #NPCons -1:46 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @NolandHoshino Sorry dude... Consider yourself lucky that @joewaters isn't here. #npcons -1:46 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @johnhaydon Not for this one! :-) This is "the more the merrier!" (Or in fact, the more the smarter!) #npcons -1:46 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @askdebra: I like @johnhaydon idea of co-developed tools.We have a project. We can measure success.We can dev tools to do so :) #NPCons -1:46 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra @realize_ink Bye! So nice to have seen you in the chat. #npcons #npcons -1:46 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts Q3: Usually, I think it is the consultants job to provide the tools and training to use the tools that will get the client results. #NPCons -1:46 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb .@spurdave But can't a contract aim those deliverables at outcomes? #npcons -1:46 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @askdebra And share questions / problems with specific clients. #npcons -1:46 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 realize_ink @HildyGottlieb Thx - I plan to :) Great topic. #npcons -1:45 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra @seattledrury Yes! We do try to work ourselves out of jobs. But we want to pass on measuring tools to them, too. #npcons -1:45 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious Thanks for being here @realize_ink B sure to check NPCons.net later for the transcript and to continue the discussion. #npcons -1:45 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb @realize_ink You can join the ongoing conversation at npcons.net after the chat! #npcons -1:45 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @HildyGottlieb Like in a private community setting.. ;-) #npcons -1:44 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @HildyGottlieb Contractually just deliver deliverables. Morally, that's a bigger issue. ;D #NPCons -1:44 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Deliverables: Do clients want “a drill” or do they want a hole? Or to hang a towel rack? Or really a dry towel? #npcons -1:44 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra I like @johnhaydon's idea of co-developed tools. We have a project. We can measure success. We can even dev tools to do so :) #npcons -1:44 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 charityestrella RT @seattledrury: We work w clients so they will *not* need to hire us in a similar situation in the future and co-evaluate success #NPCons -1:44 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MarkRiffey @MatthewDooley Smart ones have clients. Others dont. #npcons -1:44 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MatthewDooley Build checkpoint dates and benchmarks into longer engagements. #npcons -1:43 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Q3: If we can only control so much, is it a consultant’s job to provide deliverables or result of those deliverables? #npcons -1:43 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts RT @seattledrury: We work w clients so they will *not* need to hire us in a similar situation in the future and co-evaluate success #NPCons -1:43 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 realize_ink Wish I cld stay & chat, learn, hang out more…deadlines await. Cheers #npcons C U nxt time! Thx @hildygottlieb @nancylannone. #npcons -1:42 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts @askdebra Recent Gorilla: long-time DD was fired (poorly). Huge amount of unresolved emotion around it. Found out during project. #NPCons -1:42 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious Thanks for being here Kim. @kimberytso I will try to get the transcript up at NPCons.net as as possible after the chat. #npcons -1:42 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @seattledrury: We work w clients so they will *not* need to hire us in a similar situation in the future and co-evaluate success #npcons -1:42 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 rjenbarr @realize_ink yes, narrow ex - for mar./impact work: assessing client loyalty/impact - can measure facebook fan engagement & growth #npcons -1:42 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone RT @seattledrury: We work w clients so they will *not* need to hire us in a similar situation in the future and co-evaluate success #NPCons -1:42 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @JoppaThoughts: Some of the impact we cant control. Hw to get client to take ownership? Outcome is ultimately their respnsbility. #npcons -1:41 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury We work w clients so they will *not* need to hire us in a similar situation in the future and co-evaluate success #npcons -1:41 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MatthewDooley @MarkRiffey I'm a client of liquor stores #npcons -1:41 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NancyIannone @kimberlytso By Kim - glad you could participate for a while #NPCons -1:41 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @johnhaydon: I'd love for us to come up w/a set of tools & practices we can all share. (Post-chat blog discussion! Party time!) #npcons -1:41 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @johnhaydon A lot of it is situational, but it would work for vertical niches. ie: most domestic violence shelters have same issues. #NPCons -1:41 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 JoppaThoughts Some of the impact we can't control. Hw do we get the client to take ownership? Usually, outcome is ultimately their responsibility. #NPCons -1:40 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra RT @seattledrury: I work 2 ollaboratively state (proposal/contract) where they are what's the gap, if successful where they'll be #npcons -1:40 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 Dimitrious RT @johnhaydon: Id love for us all to eventually come up with a set of tools and practices we can all share. #npcons -1:40 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @jdeancoffey Oh, yeah. Just ask. D'Oh! You get a smile face. #npcons -1:40 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb Yes! RT @MarkRiffey: Worth mentioning that liquor stores can have clients too, but most dont treat them that way. #npcons -1:40 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 kimberlytso Gotta run. Thanks @HildyGottlieb @Dimitrious @NancyIannone #Npcons -1:39 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra @JoppaThoughts Can you give an ex of the 800 lb gorilla you uncovered? #NPCons -1:39 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @askdebra @spurdave @hildygottlieb I'd love for us all to eventually come up with a set of tools and practices we can all share. #npcons -1:39 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 askdebra Client told me that success means a network that encourages co-developed new ideas. Develop processes to encourage, measure #ideas. #npcons -1:39 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 amykincaid @JoppaThoughts Re 800 lb gorilla. For sure. Peter Block writes very practically about this, Reistance. #npcons -1:39 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 MarkRiffey @HildyGottlieb Worth mentioning that liquor stores can have clients too, but most dont treat them that way. #npcons -1:38 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 jdeancoffey @johnhaydon just ask? #npcons -1:38 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 HildyGottlieb RT @wrightmomentum: If we can measure success in the moment or in their reflective experience how to "propose" this initially? #npcons -1:38 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 realize_ink @rjenbarr I'm intrigued. Can you expand on that? #npcons -1:38 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 NolandHoshino @amykincaid Amy, have you tried Monitter.com You can monitor 3 searches at once i.e. #npcons -1:38 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 johnhaydon @HildyGottlieb Sometimes I call Kate, "dude". Then she reminds me she's not a dude. :-D #npcons -1:38 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 spurdave @rjenbarr Absolutely! Quant results can also open up questions for more qual outcomes. #NPCons -1:37 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 seattledrury Note - You can extract quantitative data from qualitative but not vice versa - I love using both well! #npcons -1:37 PM Jun 15th, 2010


 jdeancoffey @HildyGottlieb we ask about their understanding, integration with other practices and unintended impacts #npcons -1:37 PM Jun 15th, 2010